Minutes of a call made to the RSPCA Help line

RSPCA: Good afternoon RSPCA inquiries, how can I help?

CALLER: Oh hello, I'm calling concerning the Ten German Shepherd Dogs which were shot by your society.

RSPCA: Oh, o right, okay.

CALLER: OK, umm, I'm just wondering how you actually assessed thses animals?

RSPCA: Umm, lets just have a look, I'll just get the information on it one second.

CALLER: Thank you.

RSPCA: Right lets have a look, umm yes. (slight pause) In the first instance one inspector attended the address after the reletive came to us, umm obviously they at the, they at the time, umm realized they wouldnt be suitable for re-homing or taking to a rescue centre. So we advised the owners that, umm they were umm, advised we were unable to take the dogs and other rescue organizations should be contacted for help. Umm, so they did that, umm the next day they umm, we were aware they had tried other organizations and they wouldnt take the dogs either, so the following morning, umm the inspector along with another inspector and another animal umm collection officer went along, and they umm, and they assesed then umm actually disscussion between eight officers that the dogs would have to be euthanazed, so alot of the inspectors got involved in it. The actual physical kind of examination or assessment obviously I wasnt there so I wouldnt be able to tell you how that was. It was really based on their umm, (interrupted by caller)

CALLER: Do you actually know who was there on site when it actually took place?

RSPCA: Sorry?

CALLER: Who was there and who advised them to kill these dogs?

RSPCA: Lets have a look, umm well some inspectors were on site, there was also umm, lets have a look, lets just see, (long pause then she speaks to herself - umm, see if anyone else was there as well) (another long pause) well, the umm, to be honest it was our inspectors umm I dont know who else had been involved with it, obviously there was umm issues their umm, with they had some very severe skin conditions umm, but the main problem was that they had never been socialized with people umm and had been kept on their own umm together so they were extremely vicious (inturrupted by caller)

CALLER: Ok so how did you manage to get near them to actually euthanaze them?

RSPCA: They had to have a grasper, they couldnt actually get that close so they needed to use a grasper.

CALLER: And they knew, and they got that close to know the skin condition was untreatable?

RSPCA: Umm well it was very severe umm skin condition, certainly restraining them and then shaving that limb would of umm definitely caused them unnecessary suffering it was that bad.

CALLER: So they knew that, they knew that skin condition was untreatable - absolutely?

RSPCA: I dont know about the severe skin condition, that was a side issue, they weren't put down because of that, it was because they had nowhere to go, they were unrehomable and the next of kin of the owner of the owner who had died were told if we have to take them we will not be able to rehome them we would have to euthanaze them, they were given other options, they were told to go to other organizations and they did, and they (other organization)also umm refused to take them so they...(interrupted by caller)

CALLER: So knowing, knowing that those dogs were unrehomable, has a severe skin condition that was apparently untreatable ok? they advised the next of kin to go somewhere else?

RSPCA: No no no, we said if they come to us we will have to, we are letting you know now we would have to umm, we wouldnt be able to rehome them so we'd only be able to euthanaze them if you have to come to us. They tried other organizations, they all said they'd no we cant take them either. So they did have other options of going to be rehomed if they, but the other organizations also said no.

CALLER: Right okay, and what other organization was that?

RSPCA: Certainly umm the DOGS TRUST.

CALLER: THE DOGS TRUST?
RSPCA: Yeah.

CALLER: Anymore?

RSPCA: Umm I dont have anymore names of anymore, umm the only one I know of is The DOGS TRUST.

CALLER: Also on your, umm website, not your website sorry, your umm, on another someone stated, from you, somebody stated that you never use umm these bolts to euthanise dogs....well we just discovered you do (interrupted by RSPCA)

RSPCA: It;s extremely rare umm in this case it was deemed the only suitable way because there was, because all,..you know it it, I know it's a really distressing situation for everyone and alot of people, you know umm very upset about it, but because they were, so.....vicious, that is a problem. We usually wouldnt use, normally use words like vicious, they were extremely aggressive, they, as well as the risk to the dogs we have to take into accout the risk to the humans involved as well, umm and they were just deemed too aggressive so they had to be on a grasp.

CALLER: So you assessed these,....they were assessed on their own territory wasnt they?

RSPCA: Umm...they,...they were yes, they were assessed umm, (interrupted by caller)

CALLER: They were assessed and killed on their own territory!!

RSPCA: Yes they were.

CALLER: Yes they were !! - isnt it not in their nature to protect their own territory? Shouldnt they have been given a chance to be in a different atmosphere?
RSPCA: Well it was also that, bearing in mind it was also umm that they had never been integrated with humans.......(interrupted by caller)

CALLER: You know they had never been integrated with humans? You know that?

RSPCA: They were unsocialized with people, and umm and they had been left on their own, umm the owner had died umm and because they were so aggressive umm it would also be extremely difficult to take them anywhere as well, the umm, you know the idea of having to restrain them and put them in you know cages and then transporting them by car, from a umm, really quiet remote location in wales would have also been very distressing aswell.

CALLER: Very distressing, but do you not think it was very distressing having a grasp put around their neck and looking down the barrel of a gun?

RSPCA: Well.......you know, I, (interrupted by caller)

CALLER: Because that, that actually, the gun that they (the dogs)were actually killed with actually has to make contact with the dogs head, didnt it?

RSPCA: Mm mm (yes).

CALLER: Yes, so they couldnt have been that vicious to get that close to them could they?

RSPCA: Well they had the grasper didnt they!?

CALLER: Yes they had the grasper ok, but somebody was standing in from of that dog ok, a vicious dog with a pistol to its head, suerly they couldnt have got it right the first time!? (interupted by RSPCA)

RSPCA: Well, well they certainly would have.

CALLER: All ten dogs? All ten dogs were unsuitable for rehoming? - all ten dogs were unsocialized and vicious? All ten dogs needed a bolt through the head? Is that the case?
　
RSPCA: The case is that they could not be rehomed. We couldnt rehome them with another family, nor could other organizations.

CALLER: Ok, what about the police force?

RSPCA: I'm not sure if they would have been asked. What would they would have done? What would they have done with them?

CALLER: Train them, rehabilitated them. They had just lost their owner, they were terrified, ok!? They had strangers coming onto their territory. Was that not all taken into account? Obviously not!!

RSPCA: Of course it was.

CALLER: If that was taken into account, ok, why were those dogs still shot?

RSPCA: (long pause).............it was taken into...(interrupted by caller)

CALLER: Someone was standing ok?, within inches of that dogs head, those dogs heads ok, with a gun to their (the dogs) head, ok. This tells me that those dogs cannot have possibly been as vicious as you're letting on.

RSPCA: (long pause).............well I dont think I'm going to be able to change your mind, I'm letting you know the facts......that was.....(interrupted by caller)

CALLER: It's true isnt it? It's true isnt it that (interrupted by rspca)

RSPCA: No it's not true - it's not true...

CALLER: The gun has to make contact with the dogs head. So somebody is standing extremely close to that animal. A very very "vicious", "unsocialized", "unrehomable", animal, and someone is standing within inches of it's head.

RSPCA: (very long pause)............the other option is that, the animal (interupted by caller)

CALLER: Thats true isnt it, though? That was true isnt it?

RSPCA: No I'm not saying it's true. you keep on trying to make me say it's true, I'm not going to.
CALLER:Well obviously, if, if the gun has to make contact to the dogs head, somebody is standing within inches of that dogs face, that dogs jaw. aren't they?

RSPCA: Well to be fair, people stand within inches of,... you know,..various other dangerous animals when they have to be...(interrupted by caller)

CALLER: Well I'm talking about the, I'm talking about the actual German Shepherd Dogs that have just been....(interrupted by rspca)

RSPCA: I wasnt there on site and nor were you so I dont think either of us can make any assumptions.

CALLER: No but we, we know, the kind of captive bolt that killed them ok, the gun used makes contact with the animals head.

RSPCA: Right, the only other option...(interrupted by caller)

CALLER: .......and you know that, you've just agreed to that with me.

RSPCA: Yeah, I know, Ive said, I've already said that. What you're, I dont want you, want you to put words into my mouth..(interrupted by caller)

CALLER: I'm not, but you said they were vicious, yeah? ok? Lets go through it. You said they were vicious - unrehomable (rspca aggrees) - ok - someone had to have a grasp on their (the dogs) neck, they were very vicious ok, ok, and that the gun used to kill these animals umm, was the type of gun which had to make contact to the actual animal,.. yeah!? (interrupted by rspca)

RSPCA: By default (interrupted by caller)

CALLER: So somebody pulling that trigger...(interrupted by rspca)

RSPCA: No no, it doesnt mean by default, that if you can get close to an animal, that it's not automatically vicious, it can still be very vicious, just because you can get close to it doesn't mean it's not aggressive.

CALLER: So all ten dogs ok, (interrupted by rspca)

RSPCA: at some point someone has to get close to an animal to euthanize it, whether it be by a captive bolt, whether it be by some other kind of, some other...you know.......something like (interrupted by caller)

CALLER: I understand that, I understand, but all ten dogs, yeah? all ten dogs?
RSPCA: Yep, hmm hmm

CALLER: and all ten dogs, somebody got close enough to those "vicious" "vicious" dogs ok, and that close,..(interrupted by rspca)

RSPCA: nobody is saying that is was very very easy, at no point have we said that this was the easiest...(interrupted by caller)

CALLER: No, but I can imagine, I've seen a dog struggle ok, whilst have a grasp around it's neck ok. (interrupted by rspca)

RSPCA: bear in mind that there was not just one person doing this, there wouldnt be only one person who would do this easily. This is difficult, it is a difficult decision that we had to make, and we're not saying that we enjoyed doing it...(interrupted by caller)

CALLER: Dogs do jump about and roll about, and, and go absolutely berserk, dont they, with a grasp around their neck?

RSPCA: (long pause)...........well I wasnt there I couldnt say if they did.

CALLER: Well dogs do and if they were that vicious I should imagine they would. If they were so vicious that they needed to be shot,.....(interrupted by rspca)

RSPCA: I cant generalize like that, I dont know if,..(interrupted by caller)

CALLER: ....then I should imagine that they would have gone absolutely berserk. Specially having strangers on their territory as well, losing their owner, and having strangers on their territory, I should imagine the dogs would have been going absolutely mental ok,..(interrupted by rspca)

RSPCA: I imagine...(interrupted by caller)

CALLER: so...and then someone, somebody get close enough to get a direct aim into their (dogs) head,...(interrupted by rspca)

RSPCA: ok, maybe..(interrupted by caller)

CALLER: First time? Second time? Third time? Fourth time? Fifth time?, How many shots did it take to kill those animals?

RSPCA: well there was 10 dogs so I imagine 10.

CALLER: Ten?, ten, ok so one bullet per mental dog?

RSPCA: Is there anything I can actually help you with? because Ive answered those questions which I can see you're not satisfied with, I cant actually change fact.

CALLER: No, because I dont believe a word of it. I think those dogs just got shot for the sake of being shot. Because if they were that,....why did they tell the next of kin to go else where if those dogs were in such a bad bad way?

RSPCA: So what would you have suggested would of happed with dogs that aren't rehomable, that no one would take, not us....(interrupted by caller)

CALLER: well they were assessed on their own territory, ok. Is it not in their nature to protect their own territory?

RSPCA: Ok,


CALLER: I would like to know also, ok, what vet ok, because there obviously wasnt a vet present, ok. umm, we know this, ....(interrupted by rspca)
RSPCA: How do you know this?

CALLER: because we do, because you've already just said it on the phone, there was your inspectors there. We know that theres not a vet, and if there is a vet, we want to speak to that vet, and we want answers from that vet.

RSPCA: Who's we? I dont know who I'm speaking to. Is this just you or are you part of an organization?

CALLER: No, we're not part of an organization, we're a group of very very very angry public members who donate to you. which has now ceased with the news that we got about the dogs.
RSPCA: That, thats fair enough. If you feel that way then you're more than welcome to do so. I dont think I am going to be able to satisfy you over the phone on this, on this phone call, or I'm not going to be able to change your mind. You're very clearly upset, I imagine you've read about it...(interrupted by caller)

CALLER: I am very very upset. As an animal lover who gives you my money, (rspca...yes) I am very very upset, becuae when people die, the homes for life scheme that you have, what do you do? put a bullet to their dogs heads? after they've, after they've..(interrupted by rspca)

RSPCA: That would be quiet a generalization and an assumption. Every home for life animal is going to be rehomed as we have promised. Home for life animals aren't going to be the kind of dogs these (slaughtered GSD's)...(interrupted by caller)

CALLER: ..and you know that do you?

RSPCA: Just assume, you're just assuming now, we...(interrupted by caller)

CALLER: ..but hang on, do you know that? Do you know that every home for life animal is going to be rehomable?

RSPCA: If thats whats in a will then we have to do that. I, I, think...(interrupted by caller)

CALLER: I beg your pardon,? sorry....

RSPCA: Assuming every animal we have we're going to shoot for some reason, I think that is unreasonale, you know it's not true....(interrupted by caller)

CALLER:...ok, ok,...all the home for life animals, you've just said that they will be rehomed, ok, (interrupted by rspca)

RSPCA: They are home for life animals....(interrupted by caller)

CALLER: Home for life animals, what if one og those home for life animals comes to you as "vicious" as one of those German Shepherd Dogs you've just killed?

RSPCA: Well I'm not part of the home for life scheme, it would have to be assessed - it might even be assessed beforehand so, I dont know. This (GSD case) is a very very rare situation, this doesn't happen very often at all - it's very rare.

CALLER: No!? what about the other two hounds that you, that you shot through the head?

RSPCA: ??

CALLER: yes, it's been in the paper, there's absolutle mayhem over it - over your actions against these poor animals, ok....pets do not...(interrupted by rspca)

RSPCA: ...ok, I can tell you are clearly upset but I'm not going to be able to answer all your questions now....am I?

CALLER: I beg your pardon?

RSPCA: You think we're lying? How can I possibly answer your questions if you think everything I'm going to say to you is a lie?

CALLER: because it stands to reason, ok, concerning these dogs ok, these German Shepherd Dogs, it stands to reason that a dog going absolutely berserk because there are strangers on it's territory, right? (rspca - hmm), is not going to be assessed accurately..(interrupted by rspca)

RSPCA: How do you know? These people are trained....(interrupted by caller)

CALLER: .....these people are trained so they know ok, that when they take them (actual) dogs out of that environment, that they're going to be exactly the same? And they know that do they?
RSPCA: (long pause).....sorry?

CALLER: They know that those particular dogs would have been just as "vicious" taken out of their environment?

RSPCA: (pause)...they were too, they were too aggressive to move.

CALLER: ok, but someone got close enough with a gun and a grasp...(interrupted by rspca)

RSPCA: ...well someone has to get close enough to do that...

CALLER: Obviously thay got close enough, and then they killed them with one shot...yeah?

RSPCA: (long pause)........yeah, look, I dont really know where we're going to go with this.

CALLER: I'm sorry but it just doesn't seem real.

RSPCA: What can I possibly do to make this better for you?

CALLER: How can you poss......I'm affraid you cant. And do you know you have lost a hell of alot of support.

RSPCA: You're getting angry with me. I can see you're angry with the organization, I, personally, am not going to be able to satisfy you....

CALLER: ...because the organization, ok...are lying to the public - taking their money..millions of pounds...(rspca - thats your opinion)...No no no no, ok, it's proof. Millions of pounds a year (rspca - right).....taking out unecessary prosecutions and slaughtering animals unnecessary.

RSPCA: So now you think the prosecutions are unnecessary?

CALLER: Well....(interrupted by rspca)

RSPCA: ...who would you rather did the prosecutions?

CALLER: I beg your oardon?

RSPCA: Who would you rather was doing prosecutions against animal cruelty?
CALLER: The CPS.

RSPCA: Right, then I would suggets you go to them. Is there anything else I can help you with, then, you know, please say, but I think I'm not going to be able....(interrupted by caller)

CALLER: I would ask, I would ask that you do one thing.
RSPCA: Whats that?

CALLER: Stop lying.
　
Call Ended.